Live Comment here on Erwin "Raphael" McManus & Scribble!
So... what do you think? Could you "so go there"?
What is stirring as you hear Erwin's words? What is stirring in you as you see this piece? It's our last session folks, so comment it up!
Much love,
Ray
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22 comments:
I know we need to look at the teaching segments just as equally as the music segments as worship in any gathering. But as I looked around the auditorium during the dance just now, everyone who was engaged with their laptops during the teaching segment had either closed up their displays or the screensavers were bouncing and swirling away.
How engaging and effective can the Arts be? What kind of influence can the Arts have on a gathering church-goers much less church leaders themselves?
Donald was right...CHURCHES NEED THE ARTS!
The best use of dance I've seen in a Christian setting.
I was wondering if anyone knew the song they played right before this session started...real funky rock thing...anyone?
pax
Erwin-do you have a schedule for when Scribble is shown out of LA (aka tour schedule)?
I'd love to show it to my leaders.
Matt -
They played two tracks from Robert Randolph and the Family Band - one was from his latest CD, one I believe was from his 1st CD. Check them out - awesome stuff. RR is actually a pedal steel guitarist - but plays it akin to electric with effects, etc. Great funky positive stuff.
- John
Out of the box"ness" that communicates the story btw...
!
I loved this! The transitions were great. There use of humor! It was one of the best presentations of art I have ever experienced.
But,
we need to be careful not to run back to our churches and put meaning on a altar.
What is it that the dancers are doing in their head while they dance?
Saying to themselves "1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4"
We must find the balance in the pursuit to reach the world.
Peace out Chicago,
Sean
Check out www.urbanpoets.org
we all loved this performance and are wondering if there is a video available?
and sean, just a side note...dancers that good aren't counting anymore...
Thank you Urban Poets!
I honestly cannot think of a more wonderful or fitting way to end the arts conference! Scribble is an engaging mixture of skilled craftsmanship, humor and simple honesty - of course, you've seen it, so I'm not sure why I'm describing it to you...I'll stop my compulsive art critique behavior and say this: I loved it.(insert whoop-whooping sound here - X)
Erwin - Loved the talk, loved the shirt. I only disagreed with you on one point; there are more than 2 ways to interpret your shirt - it also looks like a gang of butterflies overpowering a gun. (you know how menacing those monarchs can be...)
k
EXCUSE ME!!!
Would anyone like to comment on Erwin's comment about the Bible being wrong??? The Solomon was having a bad day when he wrote that there was nothing new under the sun... Do you think that your parents did not think they could save the world when they were 25??? Do you think they did not dream of world peace and the end of world hunger??? Do you think this is the only generation to think this way? Do you think the 'Be all that you can be/Think outside of the box' sermon has never been given before?
1 Kings 3:12 says, "I (God)will give you (Solomon)a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be." I think God knew what He was talking about and I think Solomon did, too.
What other part of the Bible does/will Erwin say is wrong? Very risky...Do you think the Holy Spirit led Erwin to think the Bible was wrong?? Do you think the God has changed His mind about certain things?? And what would those things be???
I'm very concerned when I saw 5000 people sucking up every word Erwin had to say... Looked like a teacher leading sheep astray... the exact thing Jesus warned about. And speaking of Jesus, I don't think Erwin used the name of Jesus once... I do not recall any mention of Jesus...
Use caution, people....
Just because something has been said before does not mean that it doesn't need to be pointed out again. (Parents know this all to well...)
Jesus thought he could save the world and he was 33. Should we listen to him?
Janet, it's likely that I do not know as much about the bible as you do, but one thing I do know is this: No matter how old our world (or the things in it) is, through God, the Universe is entirely new in each, every moment.
Grrr. I wish we could edit our own comments! Typing hastily gives me bad grammar.
Janet...way to bash not only Erwin, but 5000 of us at the same time...I'm concerned that you were the only one (as you've pointed out in your own words) who seemed to be smart enough not to follow the piper into the pits of hell...
Nate
BTW, to make a positive comment...I enjoyed Mosaic's session very, very much, but maybe not as much as my white, 50 something father, which I find to be very interesting. Way to go, and thanks Erwin, for not being scared to make some people mad and squish some toes in an effort to help us to think outside of the box.
Nate
janet, if it would feel better, perhaps you should check out mosiac.org. There you can find podcasts of Erwin mentioning Jesus frequently.
Janet - I understand your concern in straying away from truth, but Erwin made it very clear that it was Solomon who was wrong, not the Bible itself. We have to look at the context of what is written in the Word, in which he explained that context, that Solomon was at a very low point when he made those statements. No man is perfect. Just because God gave Solomon wisdom, doesn't mean every word out of his mouth was from God. Solomon was a sinner just as any other man.
I believe Erwin used this illustration to challenge believers and pastors to go beyond what someone teaches us and really study it for ourselves through the Holy Spirit without subjectivity before we accept as God's truth.
The very fact of Erwin making the Solomon reference, I believe, went along with the message of the Scribble performance/drama - challenging us to go outside the lines. Yes Janet, I believe that older generations thought they could and had the desire to want to change the world in reference to the scripture he read, but in Christianity today, there is this staying inside the lines, inside the box tendency. In a lot of churches, you are expected to act a certain way, dress a certain way, live by all the rules set by man, follow traditions, believe certain truths just because that's what we're taught, hate certain people, be openly and vocal against certain social issues, i.e. staying inside the lines because that's what people expect of you. This mentality is what a lot of what Christianity is today, and this drives non-believers away from Christians. This whole Conference's focus was on free thinking (ex: the homosexuality skit) and looking at true Christianity in a new light, because what we're doing now as a nation, isn't necessarily working, it is driving nonbelievers away. Just think of how many we could reach if we are free from all that "tradition" and bondage that comes with it and allow God to truly use us the way he intended us to - in true freedom and creativity and surrender to God, and think how He thinks, create as he leads us, and love ALL as He loves.
Hey! You're thinking!
That's good!
Actually, I thought the entire conference was fabulous... really got me thinking.... looked at many things from a different light... was challenged...
I would give the Mosaic presentation the highest mark... It was powerful and was performed at a very high level of perfection. I'm sure it will reach many people from many different walks. My stomach turned at the Solomon comment... scared me to death. It opens up the possibility of all kinds of personal editting of the Bible as to what is right and wrong. Is this what God intended???
It's made me dig into the Scriptures... a good place to be...
thanks, anonymous...
I will look into the podcasts
thank you very much for the suggestion
Did anyone hear what I was hearing?
Irwin very clearly said, "I'm NOT saying the bible is wrong (or in error), just that Solomon was wrong in his thinking on this day".
It seems people are confusing inerrency and the foibles of a biblical character. Just think how many other biblical personages documented errors in their thoughts or actions, recorded in the scriptures for the purpose of our learning.
David often chronicled his despairing thoughts, only to correct them later in the same psalm.
Job, Abraham, Moses - they all had their "bad" moments, carefully chronicled in scripture, to be corrected later for our edification.
God told Moses to speak to the rock and water would pour forth. Moses STRUCK the rock, and was punished for his error. I could stand before you and say, "Moses was wrong", and not be saying that the scriptures are in error.
Irwin was not saying that the bible was in error, or that these passages were included in error, or that it's teaching is in error. He was simply challenging us to read these in context carefully, looking at other instances were Solomon seems to correct this negative thinking (like David does in the psalms).
Using this passage was not key to his presentation. The point of his talks were basically an extrapolation of one of Mosaic's values - That God our creator is "creative", and that the natural result of discipleship (becoming more in the image of God) is to become more creative ourselves. It's not a new concept (look up the latin term "Imago Dei"). Irwin's quote of the Solomon passages were just a discussion starter, saying that so many churches and artists seem to have taken this brief lament of Solomon to heart and have STOPPED trying to continue to creatively express our faith.
Peace
I do have ONE artistic beef with the presentaiton, which I still thought was the high point of the conference.
In the early dance piece that had the "office drones" coming to work, their zombie like confromity was displayed by lock-step, unison dancing, and all being dressed alike.
We all saw the rebellion of the late character, then the "transformation" of all the other drones. My problem artistically is what happens next - they are all slowly transformed to the point where...THEY ARE ALL DANCING IN LOCK STEP, WITH THE SAME OUTFITS ON!
So, the point being I guess that we are to all fight against conformity by changing what we currently do and how we look to doing exactly what some OTHER group does and how THEY look?!?!
INMHO, this is the root of the sad state of creativity coming out of the Hollywood entertainment culture. Rather than artists being fiercely creative and "new", they seem to be sustainging themselves by convincing us that what was cool last season is OUT, and that you need to jump on the new, COOLER trend.
New clothes/art/language...same tired conformity.
This "psuedo transformation" to the new conformity seemed perfectly reflected in that one dance piece.
That being said - the dance skills were brilliant, and I did get the message of fighting against tired, lifeless existance. Despite the flaws in choreographic narrative :)
Hello Everyone, this is Ray from Willow. I'm so enjoying your conversation and wanted to invite you over to the "Your Response to Session 5?" to continue discussing this scibblishious session. Thank you for wrestling and processing so much and so well. As for me, I can't remember exactly what Erwin said during the "there is something new under the sun" part, but I know it got me thinking and I know I want to check out the CD to revisit it and understand more where Erwin was coming from.
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